One of my favorite phrases is from Maya Angelou: "When you know better, you do better." This is, I think, particularly applicable to the problem of routine infant circumcision in the United States. So many parents sign off on their child being circumcised because they don't know better. Many have not even discussed circumcision before the doctor asks about it, much less before they were pregnant. They trust the doctor to know best. They've got many decisions to make, everything from what color junior's room is going to be to what kind of diapers they are going to use to whether they intend to tote him around in a plastic bucket or a cloth sling. So when they get hit with the circumcision question it's tempting to defer to the doctor, especially if Dad is circumcised. It makes him feel better about his own cut status when Doc prattles on about the supposed health benefits. Mom may be blindsided and all too often, among women I've surveyed anyway, defers to Dad's decision. Apparently all Dads are supposed to be experts on medical ethics just because they have a penis too.
Anyway, one of the reasons I speak out about circumcision is to prevent this kind of uninformed decision-making. Parents need to know what circumcision really does to a baby both physically and psychologically. They also need to be aware of the risks circumcision poses to future sexual happiness, bonding with their baby, and even the baby's life. The dramatically reduced circumcision rate nationwide is directly related to parents starting to make informed decisions about circumcision. Lord knows it's not because doctors are out there informing people. It's because new parents are investigating things for themselves, talking with friends, and perhaps even listening to activists like me once in a while.
This is all well and good but this post is about the people who DO get the information to make an informed decision and still choose to circumcise their child. People who claim not to have much of an opinion on circumcision often will say, "well, it's the parents' choice." To which the intactivist responds, "Actually it's the baby's body, it's HIS choice. That's the whole problem with circumcision!" This makes it difficult to accept a friend or family member's decision to circumcise.
Example: I rode the same bus to work for several years and got to know a number of people who also rode the same bus. (Special shout out to any ex-44U rider who someday reads this LOL.) One was a gal who eventually became pregnant. One day she happened to get on at my stop instead of a later one and I had a chance to talk to her about circumcision. She was very receptive to the information and appeared somewhat interested in talking about it. She let me know that her husband wanted the child to be circumcised and she wasn't so sure. I tried to give her as much information and encouragement as I could without being overbearing. Time went on and I stopped seeing her on the bus, probably because she was on maternity leave. A few years later my wife ran into her in a Mom oriented book club and told me that based on a conversation that took place at the book club she was pretty sure this girl had ended up circumcising the baby. I felt sad and frustrated and wondered what I could or should have done differently. I felt bad for the baby primarily but also for her to some degree because I knew she didn't really want to do it and had let her husband talk her into it. Like MANY dads who sign off on circumcision he was probably cut himself and not real interested in delving into why someone cut part of his dick off; better just to make junior look the same way so he doesn't have to think about it.
Now here's the point of this post that is starting to ramble a bit: I never had to see this girl again so I haven't thought about the whole thing much until now. But what happens when the mom and dad that know better and still circumcise are related to you? I can't tell you how many posts I've read from people that are going through some pretty serious family conflict because they are trying to talk a brother or sister or cousin out of circumcising their child and the family member just digs their heels in. The intactivist feels extra motivation to go above and beyond to try to protect this child; it's a future family member for God's sake. The family member in question, unfortunately, may perceive the intactivist as overbearing. They think to themselves, "Well, it's my choice. I'm the parent. Why does x think he/she can talk me into something that's just their own opinion?" I have the utmost respect for those that continue to try to protect the child in question in these difficult situations. But what happens when they circumcise the baby and then you have to see them at family gatherings? It can be awkward.
I talked with my younger cousin about circumcision as soon as I found out his girlfriend was pregnant. I did this via email since I live in PA and he lives in AZ. This didn't go very well. He outright ignored the first email and then told me very unequivocally that they intended to circumcise their child. Again, I felt frustrated and wondered what I should have done differently. Fast forward a year later. His wife posts some misinformation about foreskins on Facebook and gets flamed by me, my wife, and all the intactivists we are friends with. (Apparently his wife has had one year of nursing school and is suddenly an expert on everything.) This electronic exchange got pretty heated, but I didn't feel the least bit bad about it. I thought, "goddamn it, I tried to give you information about this. I'm not going to pull any punches for your dumb ass. You and your wife need to know what you did to your kid."
When we saw them at my sister's wedding several months later I wasn't sure what to expect. It turned out to be kind of ironic because our kids played with their kids almost the entire time we were there leaving the adults plenty of time to talk. Of course the topic of circumcision was never broached. We all knew where each other stood so we talked about other parenting topics: interests the kids had, activities, etc. In the end, the anger that I feared I would have for them was just not there. More than anything I felt bad not just for their son, but also for them. I've made my share of mistakes as a parent but this is one that they will never be able to correct. Even if they get a clue 30 years from now when circumcision in the US is almost if not entirely eradicated, no matter how their position on this changes their son will have to pay for their mistake his entire life. And whether or not he confronts them about it years from now, as I warned them he might, they'll always know that they had the opportunity and the encouragement to protect their child from circumcision and they opted not to. Perhaps that's why they seemed sad and not angry when I saw them at the wedding. Perhaps seeing my face reminded them of a decision they're trying not to think about, a subject that they wish would just go away. Well, I'm not going away.
I know exactly how you feel! Only thing is that I refuse to deal with people who mutilate their sons or approve of that mutilation. Especially when they tell me that my son is gross and ugly because I didn't let him go under the knife. Dang ignorant and perverted people!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I don't know which is worse, the dismissive attitude that circumcision is "no big deal" or these people that criticize the looks of intact boys/men. I keep waiting for someone in my extended family to do the latter. I've already rehearsed storming out so I don't punch someone in the nose. :)
DeleteSometimes the hardest thing is to control oneself. LOL sometimes you HAVE TO rehearse a script so that you don't overreact and do something that you might later regret.
DeleteSo true. I like to think I'm a little better at these conversations than I used to be but I can still feel like my heart rate going up every time I bring up the subject with someone.
DeleteAnother good one. Jeff, you HAVE to let us know when you have new blog entries. They are too good not to share with other intactivists. Feel free to post on our wall, sometimes I miss some new things and this would help a lot. ~Shirin. http://www.facebook.com/BoysDeserveBetter
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad you enjoy the blog. I would be happy to post the next entry on your wall.
DeleteFurther to my comment in response to your last entry I agree wholeheartedly with Judith. The fact that you warned them that their son might confront them in years to come and yet they still chose to circumcise him is indeed arrogance and callousness of the utmost degree. As a victim of neonatal circumcision (although I lived for many years in ignorance of the insidious way that it has impacted my life both physically and psychologically) I now have a deeply cynical view of life and the motives of others. "How great is the frailty of human nature which is ever prone to evil."
ReplyDelete"I lived for many years in ignorance of the insidious way that it has impacted my life both physically and psychologically" Well put. I think this was true for me too and probably for a LOT of circumcised men. Indeed, it is ignorance of how circumcision really impacts men that facilitates the continuation of this abhorrent practice.
DeleteI normally don't voice my opinion but I know how you feel. There was mention of a mom having to get her sons penis cut again at 10 months of age. I was appalled! Then when I voiced my opinion on that this topic should be asked elsewhere I was deemed as attacking by moms who SUPPORT this behavior. I was sadly removed from the group this took place in and banned. I am not sorry for saying she is traumatizing her child because she IS! I just feel sorry that something like that got be banned from a group I greatly loved. I find it funny how moms who are against intactivists say we are over bearing and jump on them for what they do, but what exactly is it when they provoke me? I was singled out for finding the act of a 10 month old boy going through such a traumatizing thing and provoked and antagonized. Hypocrites. How can they not think about the pain that child will go through and not feel bad?
ReplyDeleteThis is a bizarre situation I too have encountered. No matter how kindly you offer education and information about circumcision people will often claim you are attacking them. As if they are somehow the victims and not their sons! It's like they're mad at you for telling them the truth. I suppose they would have rather continued to be in the dark about what circumcision really did to their child and they're angry at us for messing that up. I always try to treat people with kindness as much as I can but in the end protecting babies is the priority, not protecting parents' feelings.
DeleteThey want to live the lie, and feel good about doing something bad. When you provide facts, they feel compelled to attack you because they have no rational defense for what they are doing..
DeleteExactly. If their decision-making process was guided by reason they would offer a rational, emotion-free argument in response. The thing is even when people cite things like the bogus AIDS study or worries about UTIs as "reasons" for circumcising their child, when you really explore the matter with them it turns out circumcision is always first and foremost a cultural (IE non-rational) decision. They may use poorly researched medical evidence to make themselves feel better about their decision but typically that isn't why they circumcised him in the first place. When we question their decision to circumcise they feel uncomfortable, frightened, and, above all, resentful to us for making them feel that way.
DeleteI am going through this right now with a cousin who is due with her first child, a boy, in August. My first, very lighthearted e-mail to her was ignored. I just ordered her and her husband a Prepuce & Circumcision info pack. Right now, I do not know how this is going to go. I am praying for the best. I am going to do what I can because I learned the hard way with another very good friend a couple of years ago, and I swore I'd never sit back without speaking up again, esp with someone I know and love :(
ReplyDeleteGood for you for being persistent. Hopefully she will consider the information and respect the love and concern that motivated you to send it. I never dreamed I'd be so outspoken about something but, like you, I can't live with the alternative. You never know who you might be able to make a difference with.
ReplyDeleteI've had similar things happen. I sympathize greatly.
ReplyDeleteMy philosophy is this:
If you circumcise your child out of ignorance, I understand and don't blame you.
If you knew better, but you do it anyway, you are not someone I want to be friends with any longer.
I used to think that the best approach was careful diplomacy and presenting the facts as best as possible--you know, not wanting to be that "overbearing person". But really, after trying that approach a number of times and failing at least once, I now know it's wrong-headed. It just doesn't work. For those who are open to you, they will listen no matter what. For those who are closed minded, you need the direct approach. For me it's crucial because I simply will have nothing to do with a parent who circumcises when they know better. To be fair to them, I have to be as direct and clear and unequivocal as possible (short of fully raging on them).
The message is simple: circumcision is wrong, it is unethical (and no net benefit of course), it is not your body, and you must not do it. Period. No mistakes. No fuzzy judgment. No risk of misplaced emphasis on what 'facts' or issues are most relevant. It's done. They get it.
And if they get it and do it anyway, they are not my kind of people. I will disown any family member that does this, permanently. I don't think this is extreme. Genital mutilation is extreme and intactivism is about waking people up and making this fact clear to people who just passively accept it as normal and harmless.
The responsibility on me then is to be sure I deliver the information and do it well. Having printed materials is fine but since the message is succinct, oral is fine. I only present web or other materials if there are points of fact that they need to see verified.
Other tips:
- I think it is best to speak to parents individually, and not together, as that will totally affect the outcome. I'm pretty sure I failed once because I talked to mother and father at the same time, and mother influenced the decision because she didn't like what she was hearing and dad eventually went along with her desires. Parents can also feel self conscious hearing this information infront of their partners, especially if one is circumcised!
- Phone calls over email. Talking in person over phone calls. Again, we often don't want to intrude, so we try to be diplomatic and careful with a polite email. But intruding (for a good cause) is exactly what we're doing, so do it well and do it all the way, without reservation. Emails are easy to ignore and to misinterpret. Phone calls deliver a message beter. In person allows for clearest communication. I have no shame telling it as it is to parents who are about to mutilate their babies. I don't cross lines into indecency, but come on, we need to get REAL about this. I will not be the one to squelch my emotions to be polite, and sit idly by. I value human rights over fake friendship.
- It's understandable to be more cautious if it is a co-worker. I would simply print out a tidy, compact information pamphlet and leave it at that.
This is an interesting point. Being unequivocal as you put it is important; circumcision is after all a humans rights violation. Here's the thing, though, in my experience if you come on too strong at first people tend to dig their heels in. This is human nature: people don't like to be talked into things, particularly when their children are concerned. It's all too easy for them to just label us as fanatics and then not let any of the information in. Perhaps I'm sensitive to this issue because before my son was born I didn't think circumcision was a big deal either. Another factor is your proximity to the person both distance-wise and relationship-wise. I can tell you right now that if the best man at my wedding were to plan the circumcision of his child I would go to the hospital to stop it if I had to. They'd have to arrest me. It's more difficult to go to these lengths with someone you have only a passing acquaintance with. That said, I think any kind of information offered in any way is always helpful to Intactivism. I talked to someone a few weeks ago who is due to deliver later this month. She and her husband had elected not to find out the sex of the baby so they had not even thought about circumcision yet. The more people who at least think about it before the papers are put in front of them the more that will say no. Perhaps even "Hell no!"
DeleteThis is an especially sore subject for me. Owen and I tried so much to share information with his cousin (whom he is very close to, or was anyway) and his pregnant partner. We mailed a big package of information, which I found out when I asked him about it a couple months later, they did not even open. So then we spoke to them in person and we shared info via the computer.
ReplyDeleteThe personal conversations between Owen and his cousin seemed to make the most impact, he really seemed to be coming around. But the pregnant partner, pretended to listen to me, gave comebacks (like her brother had to be circumcised as a teen because he couldn't keep it clean, HIV risk, etc.) and finally she straight out told me to stop giving her information and it was their (HER) choice.
Ultimately they cut the baby. It was a crushing blow. I wondered what I could have done differently. Maybe I came on too strong in talking to the female partner. Maybe I shared too much of my personal pain at seeing it happen to my 2nd son, and the complications they had to endure. Maybe I could have found a way to make the idea of leaving the baby intact fall in line with something she already believed (because people ultimately find evidence to support what they already believe more often than being swayed to an opposite opinion.)
I don't know maybe it was just a matter of the female in this situation being very strong willed, wouldn't have anyone telling her what to do, and digging her heels in. Maybe there wasn't much I could have done differently. Ultimately it IS HER MISTAKE, and HIS for not being able to stand up to her to protect his son. I feel bad for Owen's cousin. I think he wasn't one to make waves with his partner at the time, but I think the decision hit him harder than he'll ever be able to talk about...
Thank you for taking this topic on Jeff. It is a hard one. One that every person who takes on this goal of sharing this information will eventually face. It can be depressing, debilitating even, if you let it. It is good to know that this is a shared experience that we can talk to other understanding people about.
It sounds like both of you did everything you could. It's a hard reality that some people are going to choose to pursue circumcising their child no matter how much heartfelt information and persuasion they are offered. The desire to circumcise is usually driven by cultural and/or religious beliefs and these are notorious for running deep. Sometimes I remind myself that we are riding the crest of one of the first waves of change on this subject. It will take time but as the movement for protecting infant boys' rights gains momentum circumcision will eventually become illegal and circumcision "conversations" like this will be unnecessary in all but the most extreme circumstances.
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